I'm mighty busy these days, pollinating for up to 6 hours a day, plus all the rest of my chores, so I have to be brief. I want to make a case for open pollinated seeds. Often they will be selfings and occasionally pollen will be from elsewhere in the garden, delivered by Bees, etc. While it can be true that you can get loss of vigor and the appearance of undesirable recessive traits appearing in OP (open pollinated) seedlings, occasionally you get something of merit as well. Case in point: 'Oshun', pictured here. (Click to see a larger version) This is an OP seedling from 'Abraham Darby', by David Austin. This rose is in many ways very similar to its parent, but it has a shallower bloom that tends to quarter. The fragrance is strong and Citrus-like, and blooms are often presented along the length of the long canes. All in all, well worth the bother of growing a handful of open pollinated seeds, don't you think?